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Talk:Riven/@comment-8733289-20131224042732/@comment-23835547-20140105162200
You don't consider the dash an addition to the shield? Lee Sin does not gain a shield that doubles effective health. Doubling effective health would mean if you had 3000 hp and 100 armor and mr (6000 effective health) you have equivalent to 6000hp and 100 armour and mr (12000 effective health). Lee Sin gives at max rank a 200hp shield (400 effective health at 100 armour and mr) which scales of AP. And you're compering a utility jungler to a brusier top lane. Second, Janna is a support champ so if she had a shield that had base stat less then Riven's shield that would be sad, just sad. Also she scales off AP 240 sheild (70%AP) but Riven does off AD 200 sheild (100% bonus AD). That means Riven gains a more effective shield than Janna when she reaches past 133 bonus AD. Riven 200+(130*1.00)= 333 vs Janna 240+(133*.7)= 333.1 for every one bonus AD after she reaches 133 AD she gains a more effective shield for the corrasonding amount of AP Janna, so unless this is an AP mid, or she gets a kill bot, or rushes AP bot I highly doubt Janna will have a more powerful shield than RIven. Riven can't spam like Ez? Did they remove Ez's mana bar? Just because Ez's Q has a shorter CD in no way makes it more spamable. In laning phase if he used it everytime it came off cooldown he wouldn't even have the mana to E out of gank. That is also the point of these nerfs-early game. You think Ez can spam like Riven can 1-3? Hell no. Wukong fundamentally acts different than Riven. He is a constant DPS/tanky top laner who is an effective intiator. You think Wukong gap clooser and ult does as much damage as RIven's? No and you think RIven can start a team fight as effectively? Unless someone is caught out but anyone with high damage can catch someone out. Another aspect is that in laning phase for top lane you normally arn't against a ranged kiter. That is like saying that in top lane because her damage ability is also her gap closer while she is trying to chase Nasus, Cho, Rene, Mundo, Shyvana they can kite her and attack her from afar(ya really). The WHOLE point of the nerfs are her LANING PHASE. How much can an enemy adc kite you when you're 2-0-1 and there top laner is 2-3 levels behind, so by that time it is practiculy a 5vs4. Finally the argument about RIven taking skill is also takes into effect the learning curve. The argument is that she can be played moderatly and still do massive amounts of damage. If she beats me who is a jungler and has only played RIven 3-4 times, even if I play her well, can not beat someone who mains them. I bet I could beat you jungling as jungle Malphite, Warwick (rated diffuculity 3 very easy to learn) and Amumu even with even warmup game for us before the game. The only way you would be able to effectively (this is for both sides) say she is easy or hard to play is to gather a control group of Plats or DIamonds who have never played Riven. Find the average stats a Riven player has on her. Then with the control grouop see how many games it takes to come close to the averages of the Riven main players.